A challenge.

I'm getting pretty used to people telling me I don't consider the points of feminism, and give credit where it's due. As an MRA, I stand eternally accused of misogyny, and my opposition to feminism is attacked for not “acknowledging feminism's valid points”. These arguments are usually accompanied by remarks about tone and demeanour, and suggestions that I (and others like me) be more polite.

Now, it's no secret that many Men's issues run counter to the best interest (or greed) of women in general, IF you believe the absolute worst of the people involved. 50/50 shared custody and no child support could be perfectly reasonable to one woman, and blasphemy to another..the only difference is motivation.

So let's consider feminist talking points for a couple minutes...

Rape is BAD, and it's an EPIDEMIC!!!! (Rape/sexual assault/unwanted attention/”male gaze”)

Women make less money (on average across the whole population) than men.

Sexism is rampant against women (meaning women are judged on their looks (still), and the hotties get preferential treatment)

Take back the night!!! (Women fear to walk alone at night – men are responsible)

Sexual freedom!!! (Questioning women's sexual behaviour is “Patriarchal (tm)”)

Abortion is a Gaia-given right! (But ONLY for women)

Men owe us because we say they do. (Litany of laws/regulations/social customs that hold men “responsible” for everything from children's welfare (even those not their own), to unsafe sex, to women's success)

That's about all I can come up with, I'm sure there's more (maybe even major points, but I couldn't be arsed).

As to the rape thing, of course rape will become more prevalent when you increase the “radius” of the definition. When these grossly inflated statistics are then placed against the conviction rate for rape (even given the ridiculous standards to which men are held, for “accountability” dontcha know?), the quality of the charges are so low, that very few men are convicted.

One can quibble, but seriously, given the political value of this topic, one can assume everyone involved is busting their butts to get convictions as well. Odds are pretty good it's the low quality evidence, coupled with “no drop” policies, resulting in low conviction rates.

The stress on each and every one of those defendants is real though. The only way one could not care about them, is to assume they're each and every one guilty.

Women make less money... Hmmm, 70+% of middle managers are female. If you don't have a degree, or a trade, you pretty much work in “female dominated” retail or service industry. The vast majority of retail is woman-centric, ergo fewer opportunities for men. Same with service industry (waitresses make the cash, not the busboy/dishwasher/cook). Public sector is completely dominated by women as well, unless – again – you have a trade or degree.

Which leaves dirty and/or dangerous work for the men without education or a trade (even some of those).

Who has the worse employment situation again?

Take back the night? OK, let me know when it's safe to walk alone at night...until then, I'll continue to be cautious.

Sexual freedom would be so great. I wish men had it too.....

If abortion rights are so sacred to feminists, why exactly do they oppose men having the right to disavow the unborn child, thereby absolving himself of all financial/legal obligations in relation to the child? Aside from a “worst case scenario” of feminists wanting the right to force men to finance the babies women will CHOOSE to have, without any input from him, what other motivation can there be?

I'm in favour of bringing men's and women's reproductive rights directly in line (meaning legally indistinguishable, not literal), wherever that line may happen to fall. Anywhere from “no one can have one” to “no one can be forced to be/finance a parent”, I'm good wherever. Seriously.

As to the “men owe us” bit... Well, that depends on whether or not you accept “Patriarchy Theory” at face value or not. Taking the stance that men oppressed women, and therefore what women are doing is OK is “accepting Patriarchy Theory at face value” by the way...

If you, like me, reject the ridiculous notion as the unprovable, even unquantifiable bullsh*t that it is... well then you see the whole “men owe us” line for what it is.....sexism in the nastiest sense of the word. Justification for the pillaging of men's goodwill. Ego soothing balm for a guilty conscience.

In actual fact, the only time in North America a gender has been singled out for attack and dehumanization is now, and by feminists. These same feminists are now focussing on the TONE we use in our posts, the “offensiveness” of said posts.

They never address the actual arguments.

When they do, they say “You guys should really do something about that”. But only when they've got no other false arguments to give.

And yet we MRA's are being “insensitive” and “unwelcoming”.

Nevermind that we can't (and haven't been able to for years) discuss these things on feminist forums, either real life or virtual – because we're censored out of existence quickly. They're just “empowered” to provide a “safe and nurturing environment” for feminism.

We're the real pricks.

But, leaving aside all these things....all these tired arguments that are no less true today than they were 5 years ago...let's drop all that and consider...

What would you, as a feminist, have us do?

Seriously, shoot. Give me your list of actions that we as a society must take, and results that must be achieved, before we FINALLY consider some MRM points without the nit-picky criticisms of language and demeanour?

While you're at it, please explain to me how being “more polite” will acieve results, when said tactic hasn't worked in the past (especially in light of the success of more “extreme” actions in garnering attention AND public sympathy).? And just for good measure, tell me again why I have to rein in my opinion simply to avoid offending someone, since I think Political Correctness is an equally damaging force similar to (and spawn of ) feminism?

I'm willing to hear you out. Be straightforward, and honest, and you will be dealt with with respect.