Friday, March 2, 2007

The first of hopefully many...

There's a fairly lengthy debate over one of Teri Stoddard's articles over at MND. It's the same old "men don't need women, 'cause we hate them all because they're all bitches" argument. Don't get me wrong, I've made those same points myself. But reading this sort of made something snap into focus, even if it's painfully obvious when you think about it.

Teri (in this instance) wants men to get broad support for social change by convincing the women and fence-sitters. She (rightfully) points out that the commentary at MND and other places, when read by a curious newcomer, will read like a bunch of venom-dripping misogyny - and said newcomer will conclude the feminists are right, and lend no further credence to MRA's.

The part Teri is missing (so far in the comments anyway) is that a good portion of men have 100% completely given up on women. They believe (with LOTS of justification I may add) that marriage or any other stable relationship is legally/socially/financially too risky to even entertain. This hard core of the "marriage strike" sees very little downside to women NEVER agreeing with MRA's. They feel (likely quite rightly so) that they will never live to see the day where men are respected and treated fairly. Or more to the point they've decided "If it is to be, it is up to me", and are planning on taking more direct action. So they tell her that what she writes isn't good enough, blah blah blah.

Frankly, both sides of this debate piss me off. First, why the fuck do women think we need their approval of our political/legal beliefs? It's appalling the level of narcissism that sort of attitude betrays. The "These things are reasonable, but if you want my support you can't think that" approach isn't going to work. It's not true peerage, it's simply loosening the bindings.

And second, who thinks that making it clear that your extreme misogyny is women's fault is a good idea? That's the same shit MRA's bitch about feminists doing - and rightly so, it's embarrassing. If you don't give a shit if people like Teri are really on your side, then stop attacking her and hold your tongue. It's not like you're being constructive or even instructive in any're just being a venomous woman-hater. I don't blame you for hating women, hell, I can't stand what women have become either. Trying to find someone worth dating these days is damn near impossible, so I know what you say. But for God's sake, if you have nothing to contribute then STFU....please.

I read that long slew of comments, and this is how I felt after I finally read the last entry. But here's the thing....those pissed off misogynist men? They're becoming the majority, and fairly quickly I may add. Sure, MRA's are a tiny fraction of society....but talk to individual men and they'll nearly all say the same thing (only they thought they were the only ones that felt that way). Men are beginning to hate women for real - a reaction to all the man-hate in the last 40 years. And yes, women SHOULD be scared. Entitlements won't last forever. Affirmative action and skewed Divorce law will disappear sooner or later.

But men can hold a grudge for a real, long time.


  1. The problem with fussing about how we express ourselves, is that for forty years many men have expressed themselves in civilized, nice terms. And it accomplished what?

    Blacks in the US expressed themselves nicely from 1865 till 1965, and it accomplished what?

    Jews in Germany from 1895 till 1940 urged each other to not resist, and to always maintain dignity. And, that accomplished what?

    So, today, as women increasingly call for termination of 90% of males on the planet, we men who dare to speak up are told we must speak in soft, dulcet tones to maintain credence. And, this will accomplish what?

    Bingo! You nailed it. This is not a time to be nice or to care what those who desire to destroy us think of us.

    Stop and check out what the current status of Jews is. Attack Jews publicly and see what happens. I am told their motto is, "Never again."

    Stop and check out what the current status of blacks is. Attack blacks publicly and see what happens to you. If you survive, tell us how it went.

    Anonymous age 66

  2. Guys,

    You all have valid points. Though I don't LIKE to be a confrontational asshole, I don't see what other approach we can use. Being nice clearly hasn't worked, whereas being confrontational has. Anon66 pointed to historical precedent, and I see things going the same way. I want us to co-opt the Jews' motto-NEVER AGAIN!!


  3. Anonymous: What men are currently "doing" to protect themselves is functionally similar to what Jews did to protect themselves in the late 30's...i.e., trusted that common decency would rise to the fore and stop the hate.

    And, like then, if we follow the same path, we could literally end up in the same boat.

    Which is why I refuse to "shut up or play nice".

    Fuck that.

    MarkyMark: Damn straight. And thankfully there's people out there who enjoy the hell out of shredding feminist bullshit via confrontation. Nothing makes me happier than seeing an ardent feminist cry because she can't successfully "put you in your place".

    And yes, it's happened more than once. I've even embarrassed a man-hating feminist so much at a company function that she couldn't show up for work the next day (the big cheese was a divorced man, and made it known he agreed with me, quite openly).

    She quit a week or so later.

    I hope to accomplish more of the same.

    My main goal is to make self-identifying as a feminist a political LIABILITY rather than a source of power.

    Funny thing is, when you speak up, that's usually the outcome.

    No one likes a bigot, even if they are feminist women.