Saturday, April 10, 2010

On Male Studies, White Knights, and other ways of Completely Missing the Point...

You know, sometimes a guy just wants to rip out his (thankfully still full) hair in frustration. The sheer pettiness, the mealy-mouthed petulance, and sometimes outright lunacy displayed in the MRM astounds me.

And I'm a longstanding MRA!

Consider: The On Step Institute sponsers a symposium on Male Studies, an offering of courses intended to reach a better common understanding of issues affecting males, and uniquely male viewpoints. This panel represented some of the most influential, and outspoken, mens advocates in the known Universe (yeah, the whole damn thing)...oh yeah, and one Mens Studies professor that seemed largely to have been there to serve as contrast who stands next to no chance of ever teaching a Male Studies course, I may add.

They spoke about the myriad issues men and boys face in society, and asserted at least some of those issues existed purely BECAUSE they were male, then called for areas of study, research papers, etc.

In short, these guys and gals are serious about addressing these issues, in a male friendly yet academically rigorous manner. They are NOT activists, so much as Academics. And this is the beginning of a long, likely contentious “dialogue” between the sexes. One that Feminists are fearful of, and have done as much as possible to avoid.

One they can no longer avoid.

The reaction from the MRM?

If you can believe it, anger. And mistrust, cynicism, and petulent accusations of not enough being done (the latter typically from people not heard from before a couple of years ago).

And, like the whiny little boys some of these people are, they do nothing themselves, but demand others take the initiative, which they will follow...provided it's done the way HE wants it done, and on his timetable...


The thing is, even this is nothing new. Many of us have been hearing the exact same arguments for literally years on end. Many of us were the people making those same arguments when we first got here too, to be honest.

So as frustrating as it is, even this crap is little more than an annoyance.

What truly frustrates me, is the seeming obtuseness of MRAs when it comes to social dynamics. I can't possibly be the only person who understands this to some extent...the place is full of PUAs for crying out loud!

The MRM has been in existence for years, this much is technically true. In exactly the same way the Feminism never went away between the Suffragettes and the “sudden” explosion of Feminism in the 60's. Do people REALLY think Feminist thought didn't exist before these Feminist authors came out with hundreds of pages of text? In all that time, do people really think Feminism wasn't a bubbling topic of conversation among women, for literally decades?

Feminism simmered away until the right conditions existed, from the ability to communicate and disseminate ideas, through fundraising and latching on to other movements that were similarly simmering away for years until then.

This economic downturn is OUR chance. Do you think people would give a rat's ass about mens issues if there weren't so many men unemployed? Seriously?

The decades of MRA-dom before this served unguessable hours of preparation, honing of ideals, refining of arguments, development of philosophies... There really ARE defining characteristics of being an MRA...did you think they came from nowhere? That they were self evident? That rational, easily understood, smoothly delivered arguments in all these issues just popped out of someone's ass?

The MRM is poised to succeed right now, BECAUSE all of those “ineffectual” MRAs laid so much groundwork, coupled with the inevitable collapse of Feminism itself. If MRAs weren't out there for years already talking this stuff, you can bet you'd be hearing little to anything about men's issues even now.

The MRM has a solid core of ethics and beliefs, one that is based firmly not only on Judeo-Christian beliefs, but also those that formed the original basis for the societies we live in:

Equality under the law, both in word and deed.

Identical legal rights and responsibilities between men and women

The importance of Family, and the rights of both parents as well as children

The list goes on, perhaps better explained in the Mens Manifesto than here.

The point is, we have all these things, a coherent “movement” to present to the public after all the “insignifigant” work done to get us here, so let's bloody well use the opportunity!

Maybe all the "newbs" can show us old guys where we've been "going wrong" all those years...


  1. MRM may be based on Judeo-Christian beliefs as you claim. But I can not see that the last 2000 years of history have been all that good for men. Well may be my history is not so good but I have read Ernes Belfort Bax. He wrote over 100 years ago. What he wrote then, which was looking back even further, was not something that could be any comfort for men. I am not convinced that Judea-Christian beliefs have done men any favours. Of course I only know about the Western tradition, the Orthodox tradition in the east could be very different.

  2. Just to go back and comment on your final (incomplete) list of three. Bax certainly did not think that men had equality under the law. Honestly I can not see how a history which gave rise to an aristocracy could ever be described as being routed in 'equality'. If fact I think rather the opposite and that 'equality' would not be have been understood at all for most of our Judeo-Christian history.

    I don't think there is too much evidence for men and women having identical legal rights and responsibilities. This difference could be found in the letter of the law which prescribed certain punishments that where only applied to men. What about men being responsible for his wife's debts and not visa versa?

    As for your third point I don't know enough to be certain about this.

  3. Perhaps it's a poor choice of phrasing, but you can't seriously be misunderstanding the intent, now can you?

    I have no axe to grind against Religion of any kind, so that's not part of my deal. I simply look at what the MRM stands for, and notice a startling similarity to various Constitutions and Religious principles...

    Like equality. The importance of family, etc...

    That's all.

  4. My comments had nothing to do with religion as such. What I said comes out of my understanding that the whole of history has been pretty rotten for men. In so much as our history and culture is Judea - Christian I was trying to say that this has given us little. I should qualify this by saying that it has given us little in comparison to what I would like at least my life to have been.

    I don't actually oppose you in any way. I also think I am pretty individual as far as my own beliefs are concerned.

    I suppose I don't think family life is important and would not have much regard for equality.

    Now I have come to these feeling having gone through the experience. Looking at your picture I would imagine I am about 15 to 20 years older than you. Certainly my life has been largely spent so all my opinions are in the nature of hindsight.

    So I certainly don't value family life. As far as the culture is concerned then I can say that I was led into this pitiable state through a combination of cultural pressure and biological necessity which had nothing to do with any sort of desire for a family.

    When I was in my twenties I recall thinking that bulls are led by the nose and men are led by the balls. This is rather unpleasant and crude imagery, but I certainly had these thoughts all those years ago.

    The trouble was as far as the culture was concerned all it did was take advantage of my biological insanity and funnel me into marriage and family life. Neither of these things had ever been in my mind as something I wanted.

    So I have been married for 32 years. A totally hateful and dispiriting experience.

    What I am trying to say here is that may be I could have avoided this fate had not the weight of the Judea Christian tradition been on my head. I distinctly recall thinking at the time that I did not want to get married but felt that's just what men do.

    So what I look for isn't more of the same but a freeing of men. I failed in my twenties to become what I am and instead became a husband. I know I looked in vain for any support or guidance from the culture.

    In so much as I am a MRA then it is to prevent other men following in my steps. This is the smaller part of it, the larger part is trying to recreate my own past. Of course all this accomplishes is to fill me full of rage.

  5. Well I would certainly agree that as men, we are constantly subjected to the "real men make commitments" shaming language from women and society.

    And I also think that you'll be quite well served by the MRM, because contrary to popular belief, "traditional roles" are NOT going to be supported much by us.

    We want to trash BOTH the "traditional" (you marry me and pay all my bills for life and I'll have kids and clean the house) role, as well as the "modern" (you'll marry me and I'll Divorce you and take all your stuff, and any money you have left after the support payments can go to taxes to support all those "poor single Moms") role.

    Things are starting to heat up, these are interesting times indeed!

    Oh yeah, and I'm 40, if that helps...

  6. Hi I just stumbled upon this blog from your youtube channel.

    I would suggest going to It's a pretty good MRA site. cheers!

  7. I am 60 which make a very big difference. This might not seem the case to you but I think it will in 20 tears time.

  8. RE; Anonymous said.. I am 60

    I read your position about this life for you and felt a kindred sadness for all us males...we may not ever live long enough to see the fruits of our resistance, but we can be assured that the youth may see the sin in following our examples of what not to ever to, self-castrated chilvarist-men, verses...the self independent, nature intended ( NOT "MOTHER" NATURE...BUT PLAIN OLE SCIENTIFIC "NATURE" )

  9. All we can do is take up one of the options in front of us at the time. Sometimes, you have to do a few things before you can get at the real task...

    We're almost done the prep work...

  10. "The MRM has a solid core of ethics and beliefs, one that is based firmly not only on Judeo-Christian beliefs, but also those that formed the original basis for the societies we live in:

    Equality under the law, both in word and deed."

    "Equality" will always be abused by women.

    "Equality" is a bogus concept.

  11. "The MRM has a solid core of ethics and beliefs, one that is based firmly not only on Judeo-Christian beliefs, but also those that formed the original basis for the societies we live in:"

    This is a really good article. Unfortunately, a lot of MRA wanna-bes are quick to complain, and slow to act.

    I just have one qualm. I've never seen any essays or chats by leaders of the movement, which are heavily religious. Maybe it's because I'm an atheist and I haven't been looking for it specifically; but, I don't really think that religious ethics are a 'solid core belief' of the MRM.

  12. In this AntiReligious age, sometimes it seems merely mentioning that we are all, ALL of us in the English speaking world (and a good measure of the rest of people too) are raised with Judeo Christian ethics. Because those are the ethics which the respective "founders" of our countries had, and imbibed into the legal and social structure.

    Our concept of "right and wrong" is markedly different from, say, someone who grew up in a totally Atheist country. Or a Muslim one, for that matter.

    While an individual may be Atheist, our culture's very concept of Good and Evil is heavily informed by Judeo Christian beliefs, as is every other sphere of our society.

    The MRM is no different.

    You can argue they are not SOLELY Judeo Christian in nature, and to that I would say "so what? They still ARE".

    We believe in the Family, the "natural" equality of all people, the concept of "fairness" as informed by Christianity...etc...

    People are WAY too quick to dismiss, or otherwise distance themselves from Religion.

    And I'm an Agnostic for Christ Sakes!